I was part of the beta test group for SLGo, the service provided by Onlive that lets you enjoy Second Life in Ultra settings on mobile devices but also on your old no good computers that stopped being able to handle SL long time ago.
As I wrote here on my blog, I was quite impressed with it and so seem most of the people who actually give it a go.
We weren’t happy about the prizing but luckily the Onlive people listened to us and made some drastic changes there.
I’ve been sharing my experiences with the Onlive people directly and they’ve asked me if I could ask you, my blog readers, to share your ideas on their service.
So directly from them to you;
1) If you haven’t tried SL Go… why?
2) If you’ve tried it and were not compelled to continue… why?
And as this is my blog, I’d like to add my own request;
3) If you’ve tried it, share your experiences!
Were you impressed, how did it work, do you have any ideas and suggestions on improvement?
As for myself, I rather like the service, I’m not a very mobile person but am very happy to now be able to use SL it on my old laptop again.
I haven’t used it very much (yet) for three reasons;
-I don’t have a European power plug for the tablet I borrowed and haven’t had time to get one.
-The viewer is based on the official SL viewer and well, I’m just so very used to the Firestorm viewer.
-At home I have a super alienware laptop and fast internet so I can enjoy SL at ultra settings anytime but I’m very happy to know that if something goes wrong I can still get into SL now on my old laptop and I am considering leaving my heavy alienware at home next time I go visit my parents and use SLGo there full time on my much smaller and lighter Macbook.
-One issue I’ve found irritating is that when Onlive decides that my connection isn’t good enough, my only option is to exit the entire service.
I’d prefer it if Onlive just returned me to a menu or just allowed me to start anyway because my connection is good enough and may just have a temporary drop.
So anyway, share your ideas, opinions, suggestions and experiences with SLGo in the comments, they will reach the Onlive folks.
Jo Yardley's Second Life 
I wanted to try it out – use the free trial and then decide if I wanted to actually purchase time. However, they require your credit card information before you can access the free trial. As someone who has been burned before in hacking scams, I don’t give out my credit information lightly. If it’s a FREE trial, why do they need my info? I’ve also had too many experiences where it’s free, but then you have to ‘opt-out’ of future charges. No, thank you.
It’s a shame – I was really hoping it would be an option for me, my old computer, and my tablet. 😦
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Have you tried clicking cancel when they asked the credit card info?
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Yes. There is no option to move ahead unless you enter the credit card info.
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PayPal works now 🙂
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I don’t have a PayPal account. 😛 I suppose I could get a prepaid Visa or something, but again, I don’t understand why they need the info for something that is supposed to be free. ??
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I cant see a paypal option! I really reallly want to try sl go but dont have a credit card. Can you tell me how i can pay by paypal?
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PayPal is coming soon, but not currently available. Sorry for the confusion.
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I have a few major requests for them:
1. Make it a top priority to fix the camera and focus offsets. They’re even worse than those in the official viewer. I’ve written about this issue before. If they offer us the option to select between a few camera/focus offset presets that are much better than those of the standard viewer, they’ll really make SL Go a lot more immersive.
2. Incorporate RLV capabilities. SL Go is a great way to enjoy RLV-enhanced in-world artistic productions like Paradise Lost in Second Life.
3. Work with NiranV Dean (of the Black Dragon viewer) to restore light reflections on water and shininess rendering on the reflections of objects that are reflected in Linden water.
4. Incorporate Firestorm’s Quick Prefs and Phototools.
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I agree, especially on a smaller screen such as tablets, you really want to see things up close and have that camera a bit nearer and lower.
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Not just a bit… Right now, the camera is so far up and behind the avatar that everything that’s behind you gets in the way and navigating any kind of space becomes a major chore. Someone needs to tell them to visit Penny Patton’s blog too.
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LL can’t just add code from TPV’s, the code has to be submitted so that LL are given rights to it allowing them to release it in a viewer under any licence they desire. Just taking TPV code would force them to release anything it touched under the LGPL.
Licencing aside, LL require submissions to be of a certain standard. Code style, no hacks and must pass QA.
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SL Go is not an LL product. It’s an OnLive product, and its viewer is a TPV, and I’m sure TPVs incorporate code from each other’s projects, no?
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I cant reply above …
LL are free to licence the viewer to anyone they like under any terms they like. There is no guarantee SLGo are under the same open source terms as other TPV’s.
If they are a LGPL TPV I don’t see them getting any assistance from the TPV community. SLGo don’t release there own sources as they don’t need to distribute their client in order for you to access it and unlike all the other TPV’s, they are able to make money from it’s use..
TPV developers spend hundreds of hours a year unpaid working on open source free to use viewer projects. In many cases working more hours then their paid employment. I don’t think the prospect of that labour vanishing one way into SLGo in order to improve their bottom line to be one that would encourage cooperation. In fact it feels entirely counter to the spirit of the licence we have to work under.
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Still, I don’t see why a cooperation between OnLive and TPV developers couldn’t be reached, possibly under the Lab’s blessing – and it wouldn’t have to be unpaid at all.
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Also, please note that what I wrote is what I’d like SL Go to have in order to satisfy me 100% – if it’s not possible at all (and I don’t see why it would or should be impossible), then, at the very least, they could (and should) fix those camera settings.
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1) No, I have not tried it. Having spent a lot of money on a rig and internet connection that allows me to run SL flat out, I did not feel the need.
It gives me great hope though. Perhaps LL will promote it to people with low end systems so that they can up the minimum system requirements a couple of notches, perhaps even enough so they can code to the latest OpenGL and give us a taste of that 15x potential framerate increase we have heard about 🙂
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Running SL Go on a mobile connection that’s struggling between HSDPA and 3G is problematic – Lumiya is much better for those occasions. But, if you’re on Wi-Fi, it really comes into its own. Provided you have a proper keyboard on your tablet or laptop, that is. If you’re on a small-screen device, on a mobile connection, and/or having to rely on the on-screen virtual keyboard, Lumiya is a better bet.
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I haven’t tried SLGo yet because I don’t have a tablet and my computer runs it well enough that I wouldn’t use the PC client. I’ve been looking for an excuse to buy an iPad and I’m planning to do so once OnLive releases SLGo for iOS.
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That is absolutely spot on. If there was iOS support I would probably subscribe.
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I agree. I am also waiting for any iOS 3D viewer.
I would like to use my iPad instead of a PC.
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I tried SLGO onlive and I so agree with Mona. The camera angle really needs to be fixed if I am to continue with it. But I do like the idea, and I would use it more if that camera thing got fixed.
Oh yeah, and my bank closed my credit card when I bought onlive time. They thought it was fraud. LOL
But it’s all good now. I told them about an online game in the cloud and they said sorry. HA!
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I haven’t tried it yet simply because they’re not providing their service in the place where I live. I would love to try. I’m sending request mails. Oh well. Someday, or maybe when they officially start their business, I could use it. Also I need more information about how much SLGO could save graphic boards. Accessing SL for a while, I’d already lost one graphic board. If SLGO access could drastically prevent this reducing the load to the boards (I’m not a tech person, but technically, letting access from slower PC or mobile phone, SLGO is helping this, right?), the price is definitely worth of it.
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Pingback: So, how does SL Go measure up in the field? | Mona Eberhardt
Even though SL Go has a free trial offer, it would eventually continue as a for- pay product. That alone is a non-starter for me, even if I did have a mobile device to use. I can use Second Life for free during the hours I am most available to enjoy it, so adding access for another device service doesn’t do anything for me. I can live without SL until the hours I normally want to come back inworld. I actually promised myself before joining Second Life that if I had to pay for it, I wouldn’t join at all. So for me, using any other services to be in Second Life would have to be in keeping with that financial preference. Sorry SL Go, but I don’t have the budget to spend on you when I can use it for free at other times!
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I signed up when they introduced the monthly subscription, it was pretty timely for me because my laptop was out for repair. I tried SL Go on an older iMac that had trouble running SL without crashing, and the in world performance was nice. I do completely agree with Mona about the camera offsets, and I really missed the phototools and having advanced menu options available. Beyond that the only thing that frustrated me was the SL Go app’s 1280×720 resolution. For the graphics to look sharp I had to run it in a small window, because going full screen on a monitor with a higher native resolution made everything look soft and out of focus.
On a tablet it looked really nice, and at home with a good network speed it ran well. I tried to log in away from home at various free wifi hotspots, but unfortunately every one I tried was below minimum quality for a connection and SL Go refused to log me in, so I couldn’t sit in a coffee shop and cruise around in world.
I won’t keep up a subscription for now because I have my laptop back and it runs SL turned up all the way. Around my city nobody seems to offer a fast enough connection for me to use the mobile app, so there’s not much of a draw for me with that. Still I think it’s a great service, I can imagine signing up again if I go on vacation or am without a computer than can run SL well for a while.
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Just waiting for a iOS version so I can use it on a ipad 🙂
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I have given it a try on my tablet, and for my usage Lumiya is better. The things I need to do, like terrforming, doing decorating, managing groups of items at my yardsale are just too difficult on anything but a full blown desktop OS. Since my home computer is more than capable of running Sl at high frame rates I dont need to pay for the service. When it comes to mobile, chatting, and generally just being in world when out and about Lumiya on Android is a far better option in my opinion.
I will agree with others on the camera angle, but this needs to be fixed in pretty much every viewer. The UI on my Nexus 7 worked well enough, but the UI is not as good as other clients at accomplishing similar tasks.
I have not purchased credits to use beyond my free 20 minutes. I have about 7 minutes left, I may experiment more. I will say though, that if they could get their client software to run as a native client app via a web browser so that it would work on ChromeOS I would very, very seriously reconsider a monthly subscription
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I love SL GO and find new reasons to use it all the time. As a SL travel tool it has no competitor on a sub kg tablet I can throw in my backpack.
When home if I am sensing a “bad hair” day for SL, I login via OnLive then have a stable sailing session while my fellow residents are crashing around me.
A few of the comments above are peculiar in that I don’t experience them or can easily config around. Seems as if like Oculus people are reviewing either without ever testing, ISP’s with crap broadband or using the technology a few minutes. 😦 such is our community.
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Being so spoiled with a 2560 x 1440 27″ display I just can’t run SL in 720p — I might enjoy it when/if they go 1080p, but it just looks so grainy when I stretch it to my screen size. I think this might be ok if you are used to running SL on a LCD television, but despite getting the “Ultra” experience with virtually no lag, it just doesn’t look well to me. I do think it is a great idea for tablets, but I don’t have an android tablet so I can’t really weight it’s value against lumiya, as I have not tried either (obviously the graphics quality on SLGo would be superior to lumiya.)
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I agree it’d be better if it offered a full HD option. However, I understand that it’s still under heavy development and it’s mostly targeted at those people who have old/inferior desktop hardware. Such people are most likely to be limited to native screen resolutions lower than 1366×768, so in full screen mode SL is typically 1366×720 or, in my personal case, 1366×706. It also covers owners of midrange Android tablets with native resolutions of 1024×768 or lower.
And yes, I do expect that the rather aggressive compression algorithms would cause a quality drop in full-screen on higher-resolution screens.
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SL GO is a fresh and unique approach that allows you to participate smoothly and sanely in Second Life. It’s a different bird than a TPV.
To obtain equal performance it would take more computer than you could buy for $9.95 a month.
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I try since the begin of March to get my Visa registered and it is simply not working. Every time support comes back with a solution like do you make sure to have the correct country etc and it looks like they put the blame on me. This is going on for nearly 2 months now, but I must admit for 2 weeks I gave it a rest and did not try again. They are very friendly etc no bad word about that but I think they have no clue either.
Just now I see from Drax a reply that Paypal works and tried to find this option but I have no option for Paypal only for a card. It looks like they have minus 1 customer and my advise will be negative to everyone that asks about it.
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**EDIT** SLGo came with a solution to make sure I can get in and try it. Kudo’s to them! I sent them a spicy email about how disappointed I was and their reply is admirable and very professional!
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I doubt the kudos that are in this thread for Lumiya vs SL GO would be present
IF ..
You drag both Apps, adjacent on your home screen.. alternate them at a SL region that is built out, wear a fitted mesh outfit for extra humor.
No need for any timing device it’s very obvious you’ll love the SL GO experience.
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Hi Everyone! I’m Dennis from OnLive. Thanks so much for all the great feedback on SL Go. It really helps us to understand what we need to focus on. I like to think we are listening to our community, which is why we are now offering unlimited access for a much lower price.
All of your comments are quite valid and important. But let me address a few things to start off.
– The Camera. Yes, I agree the camera is set back too far. But believe it or not, this is the default camera setting for the SLV by Linden. This will require us to change the viewer code. But I’d definitely like to fix this. Please note: you can change the camera distance by pressing the camera icon in the right, then use the + and – keys to find a camera distance that you like. Then go back to move mode and trek around. I tend to do this the first thing when I launch the app.
– Credit Cards. Yes, no one likes to enter their card *before* they try something. But please realize that OnLive is an established company that has been offering services to our community since 2010. We would never scam anyone, and your privacy is very important to us. Also, PayPal is not ready yet… but is coming soon.
– The Resolution. Yes, SL Go renders at 720p at 60hz. Because we are “streaming” the video to you, we are bandwidth limited. To steam quality video at 1080p would require a minimum connection of 12-15 mbps And, it probably wouldn’t make much difference on a tablet. Our systems are capable of streaming HD, but since our target is for mobility and lower-end c omputers, it seemed like the right choice to make.
If you have other specific questions, please post them here. I’ll try my best to answer as I can.
And a big thanks to Jo for getting this discussion going. Very helpful indeed!
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One other note, 20 minutes is not enough time for me to decide if it is a good fit for me or not. Can we at least get this up to 1 hour? Coming from a TPV having not used the official SL viewer in ages I have two struggles — learning the official viewer UI and evaluating SLGo. This is difficult to do in 20 minutes.
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People still do not seem to understand that this is not simply a mobile client! This is a super sophisticated cloud rendering system for high-end dynamic 3D content! Hence made a little video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KYmtuKJEbY
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Who cares about the technical magic. To the vast majority of users It’s just that, magic.
It allows SL to run on a mobile device, therefore it’s a mobile SL client you have to pay to use.
The desktop SL experience isn’t suited to tablet or mobile usage patterns, the bandwidth requirements rule out actual use while mobile (technically and financially), use on a desktop is sub par due to the resolution being capped and all the completely free alternatives. Sure they might not look as good or run as smooth, but ‘completely free’.
At home, SL requires a well resourced computer to run well. The attention and focus of the user. It is complicated and engrossing. So complicated that many new users are simply overwhelmed and never come back.
SL is not designed for drop in drop out on the move access. Existing limited interface mobile clients already provide a faster low bandwidth option and reduce SL to to an IM application.
Cloud rendering is a brute force approach that doesn’t even attempt to address the actual issues. It’s a hammer looking for nails.
None of this addresses the more fundamental issue that SL is often cited as being empty and without purpose. The majority of users are consumers of entertainment, rather than entertainers.
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I pay enough money into SL without paying to use a viewer as well. If this software is available why isn’t it free to residents? “You can only have performance at a cost”. Simply exploitation. Sorry, I won’t be using it.
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Why would a company make this free to residents?
This is not a service provided by Linden Lab, it is an Onlive Service and they have bills to pay.
Besides, you can have super performance whenever you want, just buy a decent computer and get good internet.
If, however you want super performance on a 5 year old computer or while you’re away from home, Onlive does something unique for you.
Worth paying for if you need it.
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You don’t have to pay for a viewer, you can use several for ‘free’. To get an exceptional experience you have to cover the costs teams incur to make it happen. Contrary to wishes, code writers need compensation and computer hardware is never free.
The capitalist system is fed by financial exchange.
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I tried the free 20 minutes on my older Intel iMac -I was completely blown away by the enabled shadows, the graphics, and no lag. Was simply amazing. Then I too tried to adjust the camera angle, yes it is too far away. Finally I tried to sit on a chair, then I realized, my with cursor over chairs, dance beds, even tier boxes- nothing happened. If I right clicked on objects it caused my avatar to walk towards object. I spent the remainder of my 20 minute trial getting very frustrated searching ways to use scripted objects. I have heard people on PCs have no issues with this. Is this a Mac issue?
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On a PC/Mac, right-clicking should work… I use it all the time. On a tablet, the secret right-click is to touch with the index finger, then tap with the middle finger.
We’re actually considering removing “point-to-move” for the tablet. Does anyone think is is a must-have feature?
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I have only used it to “see-it-work”, zap it
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Thank you for responding, But as I stated in my post above, if I Right Click on the scripted object, the chair, dance Ball, etc, all it does is cause my avatar to walk towards item right clicked. I was hoping there was a work around. I’m sorry I can’t use SLgo. Thanks
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Very strange. I just tried on a PC, and right-click always brings up the contextual menu, and I can interact with any scripted object. Left-click activates the point to move function. If you don’t mind, what mouse are you using. Does it support separate right and left clicks? I’d like to try to reproduce this.
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Thanks, I’m on an Intel iMac with an Apple mouse. I have all secondary buttons turned off, any click on the mouse is the Primary Button. I tried Command Click & also simply clicking chairs. All I see is the cursor arrow -I don’t see any options menu
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Skate, can you please try Control (Ctrl) then click the mouse? I think that should generate a Right-Click on a single button Mac mouse.
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Thank you, I will be back on that Mac in a few days, I will buy a block of time and try Ctrl Click on scripted objects. It will be a few days, but I will let you know if it works. Thanks again for your help
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I really enjoy my experience with SLGo, but as a subscriber, I feel like I should not be logged out for inactivity over six minutes. I barely have time to go to the kitchen and retrieve a snack without being logged out. This is frustrating. HOWEVER, I feel like it has breathed new life into my SL experience – my computer is aging and I won’t be able to afford a new one until later on this year.
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Wouldn’t mind so much being logged out for inactivity (although 20 minutes would be smarter) except that those of us with large inventories must wait about 15 minutes for them to load every time we log in with SLGo, since it doesn’t evidently cache. So you get to be a cloud for quite a while.
It really also needs an updated viewer instead of one from last November. Ultra from back then is very dark and underwatery. In fact, why not just go with Firestorm and give users a proper SL experience? I bet the FS team would love to help and reap the benefits of such a partnership.
Anyway, it’s pretty neat but it’s also clearly in beta. No way to use keyboard shortcuts, no access to the advanced or developer menus, debug settings – you can’t even select to view hidden objects – a must for many of us.
So my top wishlist items are:
– Augment inactivity logout time to at least 20 minutes
– Fix the cache issue so we don’t need to wait forever after we log in for our avatars to rez.
– Newer viewer – preferably FS, and preferably with access to advanced menu items and settings.
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I was in a bad mood, expecting a trite reply in a week to my issue with SL GO..
their reply within hours. I am pleased but not satisfied YET — >
Hello,
Thank you for contacting OnLive. This issue seems to be related from what you are showing me, to our viewer not being readied for Fitted Mesh as of yet. This has been noted to our engineers, and hopefully we will have it adjusted in a future release of the product. I am deeply sorry for the inconvenience. If you think this assessment is in error, please let me know.
Regards,
Michael
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How can SL-GO continue on with this response to their graphical BUG ..
It shows they just don’t get it !
“Thank you for your feedback and for the screenshots, I’ll forward those to our engineers. We’re aware that some residents would love to see fitted mesh added to the SL Go viewer, so they are already looking into the possibility of adding this feature in a future update.” (June 7, 2014)
Any fitted mesh in any scene will cause the crash and their is no work-around.
Every TPV has fixed fitted mesh issues, but I’ll continue paying a month but have stopped using SL GO. (if you can’t FIX it, FEATURE it)
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I want the community to know we actively working on a solution for the fitted mesh bug. I can understand your frustration, as I use SL Go quite often. For me, it doesn’t crash but looks really bizarre if I encounter a fitted mesh avatar.
It’s understandable that you want to cancel your subscription now. However, we looking to the future where we will not only fix this issue, but introduce new features not available in other viewers. If you would like to be notified when on the next release of SL Go, just email mail-slgo-mktg@onlive.com and we will let you know.
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New features are nice but a bug fix is not in the same priority class..
example — I am giving a class in sailing vectors and my screen goes insane because an Av arrived with a fitted T shirt or cap.. get the idea ?
Our community gave you PR ++ and to see the opportunity trifled is sad..
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Ipad…………….can’t use yet cause not on ipad. 😦
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I am amazed by SLGO. For the last couple years since my computer died I’ve been SL-less as I’ve just been using a netbook, tablet, and phone for my internet needs. The netbook viewers give like 3 fps and overheat the machine in 20 minutes. This solution is perfect. I’ve ran it on a Windows netbook, an Android netbook, and an Android phone. I can run graphic settings I never dreamed of on my laptop or desktop. FPS isn’t an issue. Any unsupported features haven’t been enough to annoy me yet for my regular usage. The price is definitely right on the monthly plan. I’m still in trial mode but plan to keep up the subscription already. I don’t know if the controls are intuitive enough to use on Android regularly but it’s a great desktop replacement on low-end computers or to access many features on the run. I think the dumbed down interface of Lumiya is much better for my phone to check into SL on lunch break. Both serious mobile products on the market now(SLGO and Lumiya) are well worth the investment for any of us not sitting on a high-end computer atm.
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Here we are on July 26, 2014 and still no fix to ‘fitted mesh’ and camera. I am skilled at staying in the fray with the original release and work arounds.
It was great to have a coffee at Starbucks with my droid tablet, start SL GO and have a chat with Jo Yardley about a graphical problem on my parcel. Answer a few notecards and check my other business sites. Because I knew there would be no issues.
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Just a note here… the ‘fitted mesh’ fix is one of the highest priorities for OnLive right now. It is actively being worked on, and I have actually seen the fix running in a development sandbox. We hope to get this released as soon as possible.
Again we apologize for the delay in getting this out. Our systems are quite complex, and it takes very specific expertise to get games to run in our service.
I’ll update this thread soon to let everyone know when the fix will be out.
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Thank you for the reply Dennis,
If SL GO wasn’t such a great service, I wouldn’t harp on the issue.
At SL11B I got on a pod and toured the intensely graphically loaded regions with my power gaming work station and then repeated the tour with SL GO on my Android tablet and rendering quality/speeds were as good or better. The tour pods ran at programmed speeds and the preferences set to the same ultra parameters.
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I’d like to announce that SL Go has just released an update that solves the fitted mesh bug! Yay! You are the very first to hear of this. I’m using Jo’s blog because all of you have been so helping us focus on what is important.
It’s was a more extensive project than originally thought, taking longer than I hoped. But the entire code based was merged to the most recent versions, so all of the latest features are available.
Again, thanks for your feedback and support. We have more exciting thing planned for SL Go in the near future. Stay tuned!
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I like it, BUT (in the Firestorm Viewer version):
– mouselook doesn’t work, so RP combat involving weapons is difficult to impossible
– you can’t upload textures or other files
– If there’s a way to get at your conversation logs longer ago than a day, I do not know it
– it requires bandwidth over 3 mbps to run well,
But these are pretty snivelling concerns, given that it allows computers with 2 Gb RAM and slow-ish (<2 GHz) processors to work in Second Life.
But the "preferences" dialog does say "Your logs are stored on the servers," so how do you get access to them? Inquiring minds want to know.
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Hi, it’s Dennis from OnLive. Thanks for you great comment. Here is some information:
– Mouselook. Hmm. Seems to work for me. I’m on PC and using the mouse wheel to go into mouselook. Is that the same for you?
– Sorry, no uploading allowed at this time. If’s possible that some nasty person could upload a file that would infect our servers. We need to maintain a secure environment for everyone.
– Conversation logs seems to be a bug. I’m looking into it now.
– Yes. SL Go requires bandwidth and a stable internet connection. 3 mbps is actually minimum. 5 mbps is better.
Hey there is an SL Go group in-world if you’d like to join:
secondlife:///app/group/5ddf3016-69a3-fe0e-b198-fc5a39d61b15/about
Thanks again!
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I am tierd of SL, but also i like that amazing world. I make my account premium and after 30 minut i was on hold:(. ı dont undrstend the issu , but finaly they replay me ‘you are not the onwer of that account’ I gave all information they need iven my friend list and what ı have ın my inventory, also the tranzaction story ı mail them, and agayn they dont open my account.When ı sey them ok please send my monney back , i have use in the premium account,and they start to say apologize please be patient bal bla bala…ı call LL evry day and they dont gave me a satisfaction answer. But ı think the best is to open court casse for LL… is not about that monny, the reasn is how they act to me, that wy make me crazy, soo if ı dont usse my account why ı shut pay ?
LL ı think wont to ‘kill’ the good user . I think they do big mistake ın the SL.
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