Recently Linden Lab changed the Terms of Service (ToS), this was long overdue.
About a year ago they changed them as well and this caused quite a storm, the legal language made it seem like LL would own everything we made in Second Life and everything we uploaded to SL, even if we didn’t own that texture or item to begin with.
I am the first to admit that I really don’t understand all that legal talk and perhaps I am naive, but I think that Linden Lab does not intent to go and steal our stuff and I do think that many people responded in a way that was a bit over the top.
Nevertheless, the previous ToS was worrying and eventually also affected me because one of my favourite texture sites where I found many images I used to make things with in Second Life, now would no longer allow us to do so in Second Life.
I know that there are countless other texture sources on the internet but, without wanting to advertise them too much, CGtextures is just one of the best and biggest, in my humble opinion.
When I was working on something, I could easily find the texture I wanted on their site and now I have to spend a lot longer searching all over the internet before I find something I like and can use.
So although I am a creator who should probably be worried about my stuff beloning to LL I am more worried about how my creativity is stifled by all the extra work I have to do.
When LL announced that they had changed the ToS, I was at first excited.
The new CEO Ebbe Altberg has shown to care about what we users think, he is atypically communicative and willing to listen to and answer questions.
And I think that he learned about the ToS issues and told the Legal department to look into it.
Unfortunately it seems that the actual issues have not been solved, there still is a lot of unclarity and debates are going on all over the forums.
And to be honest, I don’t understand legal language well enough to say anything useful on the matter.
Nevertheless I decided to write an email to the folks at CGtextures and ask their opinion on the recent ToS change.
With their permission, I share their response here and I hope that Ebbe Altberg and the other Lindens at Linden Lab read it and respond, here on the blog or directly to CGtextures.
Because I fear that the ToS could still use some improvements and I think that CGtextures may have a few good suggestions.
CGtextures response;
Hi Jo,
.. and otherwise exploit in any manner whatsoever, all or any portion of your User Content (and derivative works thereof), for any purpose whatsoever in all formats, on or through any media, software, formula, or medium now known or hereafter developed, and with any technology or devices now known or hereafter developed, and to advertise, market, and promote the same. ..
“The revision to this section was worded in such a way that these creators expressed concern that we intended to appropriate their original creations and sell or license such creations without their permission. As our historical practice demonstrates and as we have since tried to clarify, this was absolutely not our intent.”
CGTextures.com
Jo Yardley's Second Life 
I’m not surprised at the response from CG Textures, the new TOS remains controversial and unfriendly towards content creators.
Linden Lab have produced a muddied extra line in brackets, which isn’t even clear about whether it refers to all that goes before it, or just the re-sell/sublicense part.
The part about exploiting content for any reason whatsoever remains. Why Linden Lab think this changes much is a mystery.
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Pingback: New TOS Fallout – CG Textures Still Say No » Ciaran Laval
They know better, the new Sl will be in effect the old Sl, full of content but this time with only one owner, LL:
If any really dis put some faith on Linden Lab, i guess its is time to rethink!
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Honestly? No one should give a flying royally-endorsed fornication about CGTextures. Their announcement, along with Renderosity’s, was a steaming pile of drama-whoring. I’ve explained why here:
Now, I’m going to be Captain Obvious… CGTextures went and prohibited usage of its “precious” textures in SL. No mention of OpenSim, though, where protection of intellectual property is debatable, at best. At least with commercial grids (SL, InWorldz, Kitely, AviNation), there is someone they can get in touch with in order to file a DMCA.
Turbosquid recognises this “threat” and says “no usage of our content in virtual worlds whatsoever.” OK, fair enough. But lots of content from video games has been ripped and is currently on sale on the SL marketplace, and I don’t know what the case is with other virtual worlds. Maybe they should ban usage of their content in video games as well because of this?
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And here’s a legal expert’s opinion (cross-posting from Ciaran’s post):
http://modemworld.wordpress.com/tos-changes-legal-panel-transcript-5-q-and-a-session-2/
Here’s what Vaki Zenovka/Agenda Faromet had to say (emphases mine):
There you have it.
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Poor Mona. She’s screaming louder and louder that LL is great and we are all idiots. You’d think she was a paid by the company to write like a lunatic.
Sorry Mona, eventually you’ll have all the empty land in SL to do your screaming.
P.S. Bring your pom poms.
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Got some thing reasonable to say? Can’t find it. When Mona brings her pom-poms, you can bring your villager’s torch
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It is quite common for a library like that to allow use of the materials once applied to an object of your own creation, but not to distribute the base texture, and this is what CGTexture is doing.
So yes, it is perfectly sensible for CGTextures to allow upload to SL even if they don’t allow resale of the textures. That is exactly what you have licenses for.
However, under the ToS, LL demands that you hand over the right to use the textures *in any way*, which is obviously against both the intention and terms of CGTexture.
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They allow use in OpenSim, though, where protection from what they fear is next to nonexistent. So, CGTextures’ reasoning self-destructs.
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But there is no wording in any Opensim grid TOS I have seen that gives the grid owner the right to use the textures in any way they wish as it is put in the Linden Lab TOS and CGtextures says they will keep Opensim under review so there is no contradiction at all.
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That’s not the only thing CGTextures has a problem with. CGTextures has a problem with rights you give to LL and OpenSim grid providers so they can provide their service. They have a problem with “use, copy, distribute…”
They have a problem with the fact that LL or AviNation or Kitely or InWorldz may have to examine an item you’ve made for debugging purposes; they have a problem with the distribute (also known as sell/re-sell) right you give the provider so you can sell or give away something you’ve made.
And as for the small, non-commercial, privately-owned grids… They’re a huge grey area, usually with no ToS at all, and no IP protection whatsoever.
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In other words, we’re rightly calling bullshit on LL, but we’ll also have to call bullshit on CGTextures and Renderosity for their idiotic, anti-creator and anti-virtual world policies.
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Also, their announcement re: old builds and reuse of them in the creation of new ones, especially with re-imported, re-worked versions of their textured marked very little sense, if any.
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Also, from a legal standpoint , there is nothing in the ToS that affects CGTextures or Renderosity.
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Please continue. Your delusions are hilarious.
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After a year of TOS thought, and most likely several meetings with their in house and contract legals.
Why are they using those words if the intent is not sinister .. ?
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That is the only reason we, SL users, need to see clarified, can we trust Linden Lab after all?
Unfortunately their actions scream: NO!
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Pingback: CGtextures responds to new Second Life Terms of...
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I saw on Google+ somebody claim that OpenSim grids’ ToS haven’t granted themselves the rights to user-uploaded content that LL lays claim to. First of all, let’s have a look at CGTextures’ original announcement again, which I have quoted verbatim from their website (and you can also find their original announcement on archive.org as well, in case they change it afterwards). At any rate, I’ve looked over these issues again with a local IP attorney, who was kind enough to lend me her time.
CGTextures chose to highlight two lists of rights:
1. use, copy, record, distribute, reproduce, disclose, sell, re-sell, sublicense
Let’s handle this particular list of rights. First of all, the addition of sell/re-sell was redundant; it was covered by “distribute”, and it’s exactly the permission LL and any other virtual world provider needs from you in order to enable you to sell your content. Yes, this does include OpenSim grids (and I’ve become aware that several OpenSimmers got their knickers in a bunch because of what I’ve said, but I’ll handle that later). The other rights are absolutely necessary for purposes like debugging, improving the code to counter griefing etc.
What does this all mean?
a. It means that if you have a grid or a virtual world platform where you have to look at people’s content in order to see why it’s not working as it should, if this content has CGTextures stock content on it, you simply cannot examine it! Marcel has a problem with it.
b. If your grid has a marketplace and your users have uploaded content with CGTextures stock content on it, Marcel has a problem with it.
c. Finally… (a) and (b) mean that CGTextures’ announcement is completely againt virtual worlds, PERIOD, and that Marcel is lying off his teeth when he tries to imply that this announcement is only about Second Life.
The announcement affects OpenSim as well. But I guess Marcel is happy to take OpenSimmers’ money, until he eventually decides to put the kibosh on them using his stuff there as well.
As for the claim that “no OpenSim grid’s ToS has clauses like ‘for any purpose whatsoever'”, that’s when I have to call bullshit. AviNation, InWorldz, Kitely do not have such clauses in their ToS, but what about small, privately-owned, or group-owned grids which only have a general set of rules covering user-to-user conduct and have no provision whatsoever for IP rights? Or are we going to claim that such grids are few and far between? The “in any manner whatsoever/for any purpose whatsoever” clause is an unwritten part of the way many small, privately-owned grids work. Just because a grid has no ToS doesn’t mean that what Marcel is so mortally afraid of won’t be done.
And, to wrap it up… CGTextures claims that “[e]ven when a texture is heavily modified we can no longer allow it for new uploads to Second Life. We would be ok with it, because such textures are usually not useful apart from a specific model. But unfortunately it is impossible to define in legal text when a texture is sufficiently modified to allow such use. This would create too much confusion, to keep things clear we cannot allow any new use of our images in Second Life.”
I’ll have to call bullshit on this one yet again, as I have in the past. Determining the extent to which a texture has been modified is perfectly possible. Just open the sodding .PSD (for Photoshop) or .XCF (for GIMP) files and check for yourselves. You can see the layers that were added, if a whole texture or a small part of it has been used, or if it has been mixed with other images (either originally created by the user or bought from other sources and adapted to suit). Even other image file formats can be examined to determine this. Of course, this would require proper analysis, which could cost money, were CGTextures to sue a customer that decided to use a texture of theirs in an SL build.
As for the “new uploads to Second Life” part, I initially thought it was confusing because Marcel was clueless. Now I think it’s deliberately confusing. And what exactly does it mean, anyway? Does it mean that, even if you had uploaded a certain texture you bought from CGTextures before 6 September 2013, you cannot use it to texture new products (a new mesh you’re uploading to Second Life is a new upload)? Does it mean that, from 6 September 2013 and on, you may not upload new textures you bought from CGTextures or textures you made based on textures you bought from CGTextures? Does this mean you may not recycle old content by linking it with new content?
If Section 2.3 of LL’s ToS is a steaming pile of tosh (which it is), so is CGTextures’ announcement, which is a bucket of unprofessional, press-time seeking, drama-whoring.
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One only needs to read the last sentence in a ‘Mona Rant’. Basically her logic is that, “Yeah LL is a steaming pile of tosh, but so are the other guys so it’s OK”.
How much are you hoping LL to pay you for being the worst shill ever?
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If anyone is drama whoring I suggest it is you, Mona. As for sure you use a lot of words to argue a simple point. The fact is LL has the TOS statement they can do what they like with your content while no Opensim grid, large or small, has such a statement (having no TOS at all also means the grid is making no claim either). Fact is CGtextures have every right to withdraw license from the Linden grid if their new TOS breaks the terms of CGtextures license which they claim it does. No amount of argument and insult from you is going to change that.
It is also clear you are using this issue to score points against Opensim while, in fact, there are many honest people who use both Second Life and Opensim these days that do respect license terms. In fact most grid owners and not just the closed grids like Inworldz, Kitely and Avination, actively try to educate their residents to respect licenses and avoid rip-offs. Kitely has even gone to the length now of introducing export permissions to help in the process of distributing properly licensed content to the hypergrid connected worlds of the open Metaverse which is all part of the changing, more responsible culture. But, of course, someone who demonstrates a phobia against Opensim is never going to accept other people’s freedom to choose what they want.
As for IP protection? No grid, neither Second Life nor Opensim, can stop determined thieves so stop arguing that SL and closed grids have IP protection because all they have is just the crude protection of an easily broken closed door. Export perms and respect for licenses make far more sense these days.
Finally I want to applaud CGtectures for recognizing that Opensim grids do not break their license terms.
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Your arguments don’t hold and sound like typical orthodox OpenSimmer apologetics. I’m used to them anyway.
For starters, I didn’t claim AviNation, InWorldz or Kitely have such clauses. Don’t put words in people’s mouths.
Second, I’ll say it again. A legal expert, Vaki Zenovka, pointed out that nothing in the ToS affects CGTextures. Nothing has changed since that legal panel.
Third, if CGTextures had a problem only with the truly over-reaching clauses, why did they also highlight the part that is necessary even for OpenSim grids to operate? I suppose it was an oversight. And their announcement re: old and new uploads remains confusing. As for their “we can’t determine if a texture was changed enough” claim, it’s bullshit. They’re trying to get back at LL by punishing their customers. Very… professional.
Have you perchance read Renderosity’s EULA? If you haven’t, please do. Not only is it at odds with what any virtual world needs to do to operate (I’ve explained these things at length, taking cues from legal experts who took the time to inform people; now I see they went to this trouble for nothing), but it prohibits even sharing within a workgroup that has taken on a project.
But I’m wasting my time… To you, it’s about OpenSim v SL, and you see things in black-white, with nothing in between. Relax. No one’s out to destroy your beloved platform.
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“No grid, neither Second Life nor Opensim, can stop determined thieves so stop arguing that SL and closed grids have IP protection because all they have is just the crude protection of an easily broken closed door.”
So why do we need laws in RL at all? They don’t stop people from killing and stealing.
As I wrote in the comments in another blog: I do not understand, why you present OpenSim with such brainless words as a platform for idiots.
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Well, clearly, Mona doesn’t read or digest what other people say. She takes no notice of my comment that there are honest people using both Second Life and Opensim when she levels a nonsensical charge of “Opensim vs SL” to counter my argument. She simply wont accept that Linden Lab are at fault with their TOS statement and Jo Yardley nails it in simple words; One only needs to read the last sentence in a ‘Mona Rant’” to know what she really means.
Personally, although I know Mona doesn’t know this but I own land in Opensim grids and I still have two sims in Second Life running a successful RPG so I am hardly against SL (what I think of Linden Lab management is another matter). But I see people like Mona all the time sniping at Opensim so I rather think the problem is the other way round, Mona supports SL and their TOS excesses and their profiteering so it’s very much SL vs Opensim in Mona’s book because Opensim presents an imagined threat in her paranoid thinking somehow. Many, many Opensim users, myself included, have a vested interest in both SL and OS and work to promote cross grid activities which hardly sets us as one against the other.
Gosh, if anyone sees things in black and white terms it is surly Mona and, I might add, mostly black really for she lives is in some dark corner of her own delusions. The way she rants, as evidenced above and elsewhere on this issue in defense of the Linden profiteering corporation speaks volumes.
But really, I have to bail out for if one argues with a fool long enough there is always the danger folks wont be able to tell the difference. All yours Mona Eberhardt.
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If that’s how you think it is, who am I to argue? After all, IP lawyers (both from the US and from the EU) with whom I’ve spoken on the ToS issue and CGTextures/Renderosity’s announcements are obviously wrong and you are right, 1000000000%. Guilty as charged. I’m a member of the Global Conspiracy of Anti-OpenSimites who are paid by the Illuminati to destroy OpenSim and all that it stands for. Yup, you saw through my web of deceit, and you have uncovered and foiled the conspiracy.
Happy now?
Seriously… Your entire comment is made up of nothing but ad hominems – you address exactly none of the points I’ve made, and I’m not going to bother responding to you anymore.
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Yeah, just read the last sentence from Moan-ah. “Your an idiot and I don’t care what you say.”. I wonder why she isn’t yet pushing a shopping car through some empty parcel of land yet?
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It should read: “You’re an idiot”. See, I’m able to admit to a mistake unlike Shopping Cart Moan-ah.
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To think once Sl could have been the bridge for virtual worlds that Kitely is starting to be.
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Linden Lab slogan: “Proudly screwing customers for over a decade”
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Try http://www.plaintextures.com. They are very good as well and you can use them.
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Thank you for the tip!
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